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Madina Seeker Status
Kathy
05/03/03 at 19:05:41
[quote author=Dude link=board=lighthouse;num=1051768651;start=0#10 date=05/03/03 at 05:25:49]Iím a convert
[/quote]

[wlm]

This is the 2nd or 3rd time i have read this... Why does your pen name say "seeker"??
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Nistar
05/03/03 at 23:50:59
Good question Kathy! ...i was wondering the same...

Why does my name say "seeker" too? †I thought it was a title given until you hit your 20th post or something along these lines???  So -- is it a title given to new converts???  What is the issue here?

Peace,
Nistar
05/03/03 at 23:58:30
Nistar
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
jannah
05/04/03 at 00:46:39
[Madina Seeker] is the title given to NonMuslims on the board. It is something manually added to a profile by the administrators [me usually] after the first introductory post where the person introduces themself and their background.

InshaAllah in the future we can have the script ask this in the profile, instead of trying to figure it out on the board later on.

05/05/03 at 05:10:42
jannah
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Dude
05/04/03 at 00:54:22
[quote]This is the 2nd or 3rd time i have read this... Why does your pen name say "seeker"?? [/quote]

I don't know. It's not in my control, and as I've said before, I spend little time worrying about a title someone else decided to tag on me. The least of my worries is justifying myself to people who don't understand or know me.
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
jannah
05/04/03 at 01:24:06
Right.. I don't want to do the label defining.. that gets too tricky with the details.. if people want to be clear on 'what they are' they can add it in their profile biography inshaAllah...

Btw Dude, are you Muslim??? You've never said.

05/04/03 at 02:19:39
jannah
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Dude
05/04/03 at 18:09:51
Yes I have stated, and you know it.

For some reason, you feel it necessary to pigeon hole others, and issue public tags and such. That's your choice...this is your site. Really, at the end of the day, your opinion of me is absolutely inconsequential.

Carry on.
05/04/03 at 18:19:21
Dude
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
jannah
05/05/03 at 00:03:38
[slm]

I'm glad you think I know it, but I did not read in any post where you said clearly "I am a Muslim." Maybe I missed that one? [Dude I'm sorry if this offended you but  when you first came here you did not say you were Muslim nor did you at later times clearly state it. I and I think others were/are confused with your various statements.]

So since you say you are Muslim I'll take off the Madina Seeker inshaAllah. All I need, is for people to tell me if they are Muslim or not. It is not me making the decision or "pigeonholing anyone", it's about what they themselves say! They usually state if they are Muslim or not Muslim in their first post and that is when I make the change. If it's someone who never introduced themselves and started posting later, then it's added later. If someone converts, I try to change it. But I can't be a mind-reader at all times, so please let us know if your status changes. Like I mentioned before I'd like to have this automatic in the profile later so it doesn't have to be manual.


I think it's important that others be aware if someone is Muslim or not. For example let's say in a thread where someone asks, 'is it ok for me to go to the bar tonight and drink', someone who is not Muslim could post 'sure what's the problem'  and of course the person reading it may not realize that this is not "islamic advice'.  This is a facetious example but its the only way right now of letting people know what the different backgrounds of people are.

I think we've explained the reasoning behind this over and over again (or at least I feel like it? :P). It is also stated in the Constitution when someone registers.



05/05/03 at 05:33:01
jannah
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
a_Silver_Rose
05/05/03 at 00:14:08
[slm]

[quote]I think it's important that others be aware if someone is Muslim or not. For example let's say in a thread where someone asks, 'is it ok for me to go to the bar tonight and drink', someone who is not Muslim could post 'sure what's the problem'  and of course the person reading it may not realize that this is not "islamic advice'.  This is a facetious example but its the only way right now of letting people know what the different backgrounds of people are.

[/quote]

Well we are getting a lil off topic but I did want to commnt on this. Really some Muslims would also say 'sure whats the problem' because I have seen this myself in another Islamic forum. But I do like the fact that you have a tag for 'madina seeker' because that way we know who is not Muslim and can personally help them more or in a diff way because they are in a diff position. Im glad you dont have other 'religious affiliatiohs' added because everyone is a potential Muslim , insh'Allah. and also because it could lead to unintentional discrimination.

05/05/03 at 00:16:43
a_Silver_Rose
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Nistar
05/05/03 at 00:44:02
Ok -- but how many people have responded with certain preconceptions to posts -- believing that the person is a non-muslim?? (ie: a new member feeling the need to qualify a post with, "I'm assuming everyone here is a Muslim right? †I don't to say something they don't understand.")

Do people on this board, or the Ummah in general, subconsciously weigh the advice from -- or treat perceived non-Muslims differently? †Do we have the right to question who is Muslim?

We had this problem at my school. †The MSA arranged halaal meat at the cafeteria -- but ran into ethics problems when servers would refuse halaal meat to anyone who didn't "look" Muslim (ie: arab or indo-pak).

Peace,
Nistar
05/05/03 at 00:46:01
Nistar
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
jannah
05/05/03 at 03:36:03
Good questions Nistar..

[quote author=Nistar link=board=lighthouse;num=1051768651;start=15#20 date=05/05/03 at 00:44:02]Ok -- but how many people have responded with certain preconceptions to posts --
[/quote]
To answer your question yes people will respond with preconceptions. That is normal in any type of internet forum and even in real life since we cannot possibly know everything about every situation.  Many people have done as silverrose mentioned, they answer a post or question differently if a person is muslim or non-muslim --  that only makes sense.. islam is a set of values and morals that is different for Muslims and NonMuslims...

for example a NonMuslim posted on the board that he "liked a Muslim girl and wanted to date her" and some ppl thinking he was muslim gave him the advice to stop contemplating a sin, etc, etc '. like errrrrr he's not muslim so it doesn't make sense to tell him he's committing a sin...! his whole value system and the advice he is looking for is completely different.

[quote]"I'm assuming everyone here is a Muslim right?  I don't to say something they don't understand.")[/quote]

Not sure what that exact post was about, but there are a lot of citizens who at first think everyone who posts is muslim. I think it's only courtesy to ask... to avoid using islamic terms or jargon others may not be familiar with.

[quote]
Do people on this board, or the Ummah in general, subconsciously weigh the advice from -- or treat perceived non-Muslims differently? [/quote]

I don't know about other people, but I definitely weigh the advice differently.  They are just different and not really comparable. Like for example our 'marriage advice' threads.. we post about nonMuslims experiences/advice ie John Gray thread in Kabob and there are threads in Naseeha from Muslim married couples giving advice. Is one better than the other? Depends on the situation and the advice you're looking for I think.  

[quote]
Do we have the right to question who is Muslim?
[/quote]

That's like a conundrum ;)  We know what a Muslim is and who a Muslim is from the definitions given to us in the Quran and the Sunnah traditions.  But whether a certain person is Muslim practicing or 100% in their heart or not is up to God, not us.  I think in this life we can only take what a person says at face value.  

Saddam says he is Muslim.. is he? His actions go against the definition of "Muslim", but yet he claims the title.. so Allahu alam.

[quote]
We had this problem at my school.  The MSA arranged halaal meat at the cafeteria -- but ran into ethics problems when servers would refuse halaal meat to anyone who didn't "look" Muslim (ie: arab or indo-pak).[/quote]

?? Shouldn't they just give halal to anyone who requests it?


05/05/03 at 03:38:59
jannah
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Nistar
05/05/03 at 07:57:18
The servers were non-Muslim (the Prez had worked it out with the managers -- who bought a new grill and made a special serving area for halaal meat only), and unfortunately, assumed the more obvious stereotypes about Islam. †Once we found out this was happening, the Prez explained things and we made up pamphlets about Islam, dhabiha meat, etc., for the general public.

Then came the internal debates -- some people arguing that we did have a right to question, or even register the Muslims on campus! †In the end, it was decided that no one can judge or look into people's hearts -- and could only trust in God that people's intentions were good.

However, more often than not, the halaal lunches and dinners were better than the meals prepared for the general student body (preparing food for 200 VS 3,000) -- and many times Muslims would find that the halaal foods were all gone by the time they got to the Caf. †Which started the debate all over again!

Thank God this only happened the first few months of the program -- it's now been running a full two years successfully!

Peace,
Nistar
05/05/03 at 07:58:54
Nistar
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
Dude
05/05/03 at 10:43:54
Jannah,

Thanks for the appology, but otherwise, I don't know how to respond to you. I was fine last night when I read your fist version, before you edited it and added a bunch. Now Iím all wound-up again. I presume you read every post on this board, do you not? I'm tired of rehashing this for everyone, but what makes me angry is that I already had to defend myself when someone decided they needed to tell me my marriage to my wife was "invalid". If I recall, you edited one of my posts in that thread, but left the one up that really stung me. In other words, you chose to not touch the one post that was extremely insulting to me and my loved ones, but instead removed the one where I stated "thugs don't scare me, ignorance does."

I explained my faith the best I could there (when the first question about "seeker" came up from the offensive poster), and in the "Kaffar" thread. I don't know what your motivation is, but when I see you post this:

[quote]That's like a conundrum. We know what a Muslim is and who a Muslim is from the definitions given to us in the Quran and the Sunnah traditions. †But whether a certain person is Muslim practicing or 100% in their heart or not is up to God, not us. †I think in this life we can only take what a person says at face value. †[/quote]

...it makes me seethe. If this is true, then why the titles? You've KNOWN for some time that I clearly stated I've converted. You of all people should know I've stated my faith. Yes, there was a period of confusion where I wasn't sure if my conversion was legit, but then you were also active in the thread where I had stated that Bhaloo helped me realize that my belief system (along with what I already knew- my ethics, morals, and actions) means I'm Muslim. It was VERY clear then. It has nothing to do with weather I'm proud of it or not, it just happens to be a fact- I'm a Muslim because of my belief system.

In my personal dealings, I refuse to judge others by their race, color, or religion. I don't give anyone preferential treatment because of this. I treat others as I'd like to be treated, and deal with those who show the ethics and morals that I view as acceptable in any way of life. I don't look to see if a person is Muslim first. I judge people by their actions. I've met many great people through Islam, but I've also met as many great people through college, sports, the Catholic Church, and work. Likewise, I've met a lot of hypocrites in my life (including Muslims) that I wouldn't let walk through my front door.

Thanks again for those who've sent me IMs of support. I do appreciate it...sort of helps me feel not so alienated on this site. It keeps me coming back, which is (as it always has been) for the purpose of learning more about Islam and other Muslims. Thanks to you all and God Bless you.



05/05/03 at 10:53:57
Dude
Re: Islam is wonderful, but I can't stand the Musl
jannah
05/05/03 at 16:44:09
Dude I'm not going to argue with you. I said that I did not know what you were and you never asked me to change it, so if you don't believe me or want to call me a liar, I can't do anything about it. I've made my posts very clear on this issue. It is a matter of policy on this board. If you don't like it you are quite free to leave.  Let me know through Madina message.
05/05/03 at 17:07:53
jannah


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