an eyewitness account from Afghanistan

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an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Kashif
05/05/01 at 16:43:28
assalaamu alaikum

An Afghani friend of mine wrote:

>> 4] From a personal eyewitness account, I did not observe such things.  Women were able to take taxis, going shopping, and get their needs taken care of. Nursing schools have been open in Kandahar where women recieve education and help out the ill.  None of my female family members who live in Kabul have complained of such treatment by the Taliban. <<
NS
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
BroHanif
05/05/01 at 19:11:50
A.W.W.

Alhamdulilah, Just as I thought, there is hope for Brother Jehad to move here :) To an Islamic Emirate. A country where the Khalifah system is established.

Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
jehad
05/06/01 at 14:55:23
asalm walakum
afgahnistan is not the khalafah nor do they claim to be. Many people have asked them to implement khilafah, they refused.

It is true a lot of things have improved since the taliban took over, and in internal affairs they implement a lot of Islam. But in external affairs they do not rule by Islam and they have said they have no intention to spread Islam to other lands. They are only concerned with Afghanistan. so as far as we are concerned it is still a hostile regime. They know what they need to do, lets pray they do it, or they are replaced by others who will do it.
Many delegations have been sent to them from all over the world telling them what they need to do to obtain the leadership of all the Muslims in the world.

Once they rule completely by Islam it is farad on all Muslims to obey them.
Ati ul allah wa ati ul russul wa ulil umarul minkum


Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Kashif
05/06/01 at 18:07:08
assalaamu alaikum

[quote]But in external affairs they do not rule by Islam and they have said they have no intention to spread Islam to other lands.[/quote]
With a million of their people displaced, and facing the worst drought crises in living history, they should prepare to spread Islam to other lands? What kind of thinking is this?

Should they announce a desire to take over neighbouring Pakistan, when Pakistan is the only country in the world who has helped them?

Kashif
Wa Salaam
NS
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
BroHanif
05/06/01 at 18:24:31
A.W.W.

[quote] But in external affairs they do not rule by Islam and they have
 said they have no intention to spread Islam to other lands [/quote]

Bro Jehad what do you mean...??? The above statement dosen't follow the one in your earlier paragraph.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
jehad
05/08/01 at 05:51:11
aslam walakum
kashif, yes. Or at least prepare to do so. By recognising Pakistan they have made the declaration that Pakistan has the right to exist. Pakistan is not the only country, Uzbekistan has a very Islamic population, who love Islam and are being ruled by a Jew. If Afghanistan declare them selves khilafah, they will easily be able to take control of Uzbekistan as the people their have great desire for khilafah and also have the biggest Fighter Aircraft factory in the former Soviet Union.

brohanif, most of the criticism against the taliban are lies or attacks against Islam or attacks against valid Islamic opinion. It is a fact that materially things have improved and are improving since the taliban took over, to deny it is to deny reality.
But it also a fact that the taliban has attempted to join the UN and has opened embassies with UAE, Saudi and Pakistan. To deny this is also a denial of reality.

So it is clear that complete shria is not yet being implemented in Afghanistan, so it is not farrad to obey the leadership of the taliban, and the obligation of working for the reestablishment of the khilafah has not yet been lifted from the necks of the entire Ummah.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Kashif
05/08/01 at 11:23:09
assalaamu alaikum

Dear jehad.. lets inject a bit of reality into the analyses.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
proudtobemuslim
05/09/01 at 05:58:10
Assalam-u-Alaikum,

Forgive me for my ignorance byt what is wrong with opening embassies in other countries?  And am I correct in saying that it is also incorrect for there to exist separate soveriegn countries and that ALL Muslim countries should be under a single boundary?  Please supply daleel if possible.

Who are the people that have gone to Afghanistan to request implementation of the Khilafah?

Wassalam-u-Alaikum,
Uzer
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
BroHanif
05/09/01 at 06:54:31
A.W.W.

Bro Jehad, please think before you post. Opening Embassys are wrong now...??? Getting a seat on the UN is wrong now...??? Where do you get your thoughts from.?

Embassys are a good thing, they provide valuable information, for example what is happening in their country, how you go about getting a visa, how you can help with relief efforts etc etc. So your not doing a sin by opening up and embassy and it is clearly not an act that would be seen as kufr. Don't you think if the Taliban had an embassy in London or the States they would be more recognised, I for one would invite the Embassy offcials over to my place to tell the people in the surrounding mosques in my locality what they are doing and what the situation is in Afghanistan.

Don't you think by getting a seat on the UN they can at least tilt the scale towards countries for more support in Palestine and Chechneya. The UN helps with the relief efforts, tries to ensure that child labour is erradicated, drugs withdrawn, help on education and well being etc etc. I know the UN has its faults and its not perfect but lets not forget the good that it has done.


And Allah knows best
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Saleema
05/09/01 at 10:31:06
Embassys are a good thing, they provide valuable information,

Plus embassies can be used for spying. :) All the countries do.

[wlm]
Saleema
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
jehad
05/09/01 at 10:44:15
Asalm walakum,
ProudtobeMuslim
The Muslims are one nation, We can only have one leader. You only open a Embassy with a country you recognise as a separate country. The fact that the Taliban have opened embassy with other Muslim countries means that it recognises those countries. And does not intend to take control of them. There are many hadith about this issue stating that if you have two leaders kill the second. You are correct it is completely harram to exist as separate sovereign nations. Even the concept of nation state(a nation with fixed boundaries) is completely Harram. And this is a major biddah of this time.
We as Muslims have never existed as separate sovereign countries until now. Some times there were two heads of state, both controlling different areas, but this was due to power struggles and both claimed sovereignty over all the Islamic lands, and both tried to take control of all the Islamic lands. Like what happened between China and Taiwan.
So if a country becomes Islamic, it will regard all Muslim lands as part of its territory, and the leaders of those lands as rebels, unless they willingly join.
Afghanistan is fighting rebels in the north? Why? It is true that all Muslim lands should be united not just the lands the kaffar have declared to be the lands of Afghanistan. If you state that the Taliban have the right and the obligation to fight the rebels in the north to unify their country from the provinces that refuse to except the Islamic Government, why does this obligation end at the boundaries the kaffar colonialists have declared to be Afghanistan, and not all Muslim land?
The only way there is any deference between the rebel northern areas and Pakistan is if you except international law as a source.
The UN recognises Nation states, Islam does not. In our deen the only borders we will recognise are those between us and the kaffar countries we have contracts with, and these can only be temporary. Islam came to liberate all of humanity from slavery to man made laws, not just the Muslims. So once we are able to take control of the kaffar countries, and our contracts with them have expired, or have been broken by them. we will liberate the people in those lands from the slaver of man made laws, and the oppression of kufr.

Being part of the UN is a much bigger issue, as you recognise international law if you join. And international law is placed above your state law.
Isn't Allah the only law maker? A country which has a source of law other then Islam can never be labelled an Islamic state. Whether the source other then Sharia is above or below, Allah is the only lawgiver. This deen is complete, nothing has been left out of the book. What ever problems we face Allah has given us the solution. There is no room for laws other then Allah's in an Islamic state.

About the UN: they can not be used to eradicate child labour, drugs, Israel etc. Because they are the source of all these evils.
The UN was created to keep the world leaders as world leaders, and prevent any one else from becoming powerful. You can never tilt balances there, cause 5 permanent members have the right of veto. If all the nations in the world say one thing, and one of the permanent members does a veto, it will not be carried out.
The UN is a evil institution, that is created for evil. The solution to Israel is Jihad, that can only happen if we refuse to follow international law and follow our own, cause international law recognises Israel's right to exist. And Jihad is farrad.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
BroHanif
05/09/01 at 16:50:08
A.W.W.

As I said Bro Jehad the UN ain't perfect. But it has done good. As for Israel look at the countrys surrounding her are they muslim or not...??? If so why can't we do anything, is it becuase we have left the ways of Allah and his prophet ...??? I think so.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Kashif
05/09/01 at 18:08:52
[quote]A.W.W.

As I said Bro Jehad the UN ain't perfect. But it has done good. As for Israel look at the countrys surrounding her are they muslim or not...??? If so why can't we do anything, is it becuase we have left the ways of Allah and his prophet ...??? I think so.
[/quote]
assalaamu alaikum

You're pulling my leg akhee - the UN has done some good? Subhanallah, how does the 'nice' fact that they sent some food to the Bosnian Muslims in the 90's scratch out what happened at Srebrenica? And what about the UN's inaction during the Rwandan genocide (1 million dead)? And its action against Iraq (500,000+ dead)? Its inaction that caused a third of the population of East Timor to be wiped out? Its population control programs that are targetted specifically at Muslim countries? Its Women's conferences that are organised to undermine the honourable station given to the Muslim women by Islam?

A few itty-bitty morsels of food handed out here and there is insignificant and not worth even a footnote compared to the widespread harm that the UN is responsible for.

Its fundamentals such as the Universal Declaration for Human Rights are things that are not worth the paper they are written on... they can talk about the right for self-determination from now till Eid - but when the test comes (e.g. Palestine) where is the UN to be seen? They are stern in their statements that no genocide will occur after WWII, yet what happened in Bosnia on Europe's very own soil?

Sufficient for the Muslims are Allah, His Messenger and the rest of the believers.

Kashif
Wa Salaam

PS. Did i mention the UN and its inaction in Israel?

Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
BroHanif
05/10/01 at 04:37:20
Bro Kashif,

I agree with you, however, the problem is always the same, our muslim countries aren't willing to sign up to anything else. Our leaders can't get their act together, for example, they are ready to send their army personnel ajd relief workers where the UN requests it to. However, why can't we have a muslim UN force, it would work like all the muslim countries get together, contribute to the running of service and military personnel etc etc. This I think is easily achievable.
Another thing is that the UN will be dispatched really fast where there is a vested interest, for example Iraq. Everywhere else its a different story.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
jehad
05/10/01 at 07:48:14

Asalm walakum
Brohanif
The UN and the Muslim countries are the cause of the problems.
Israel is surrounded by Muslim countries who use their armies to prevent the Muslim  populations of those countries from fighting Israel.
And this is to do with the UN, cause when a country joins, it pledges to recognise the borders of other countries.
The UN is a kufr institution set up for kufr. The UN is what drew up the Muslim countries you see around Israel, by carving them out of the Khilafah.
It is clear to all that the UN is a tool of evil and have carried out much evil, calling it peace making. And through the UN Muslim countries send Muslim soldiers to fight for kufr aims.
But this is not what I am saying, what I am saying is that to be part of the UN means you except international law, Man made law, while Allah is the only law giver. So any country that is part of the UN has not got Allah's law as its only source of law.
This is clear, if you ask a member of the Taliban about this they wont disagree, they don't claim to be the khilafah, if they did they would be declaring kufr. What they will tell you is that they are striving to implement Sharia.
I am not attacking what they have done internally, since they took over crime has been eliminated, and the fighting has nearly stopped. But even though they are implementing more Islam then any other regime in the Muslim lands, they still don't have Islam as their soul source of law yet. Instead of justifying their non implementation, we should be advising them and their supporters, then may be soon we will all be able to give them bayah, and be united under  their leadership. Or they will be replaced by people the are deserving of the leadership of the whole Muslim world.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Sharifa
05/11/01 at 18:28:39
One interesting thing not posted here regarding Taliban..in case no one thought of this.

Where does Taliban get its finances and weapons from?  Pakistan.  Who gives money to Pakistan?????  The USA, Ironically.

Also, Taliban has made many significant positive changes in Afghanistan, but they have not taken steps to protect their people.  The media has made them sound like monsters...which is not true.  They're just a group of Pushtun students.  Afghanistan needs Islam.  They are burdened with culture and superstition.  I do think, however, that Taliban should ease up on some of the law issues and make some humanitarian efforts for their people.  If they have and I am unaware, someone please let me know.  And they better not hold their breath for the UN...
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Arsalan
05/14/01 at 18:17:33
[slm]

Sharifa, the Pakistani *government* gets aids from the US.  It is the *mujahideen* in Pakistan who are aiding Afghanistan, not the Pakistani government.  The situation was different during the Cold War, but as of now, there is no considerable aid going from the Pakistan governemtn to the Taliban.  It's all the work of Islamic groups in Pakistan (Jamaat-e-Islaami is noteworthy btw).

Wassalamu alaikum.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
MMohammad
05/15/01 at 00:06:14
Salaam,

I disgree with many of you on this issue, sorry to say. Since the Taliban no improvement has been made (no offense). Look at the current situation the people are suffering, starving, massacred over 1000s of people, killed any person who has different opinion as they do (particularly the Shia), women rights oppressed (rawa.org), and stupid rules which they implement which has nothing to do with Islam. I thought there was no complusion? My friend was telling me when he lived there men who didn't have long enough beards (according to them) were kidnapped and beaten, not waking up for Fajr by mistake also got a beating (including smal children), "other" Muslims couldn't practice because it differed from theirs. I can't go on. Just recently they spent thousands on what? Destroying a bunch of Buddha statues? Why didn't they use the money to help their people? And Tammy Din is correct.. Taliban denounce UN so much but at the same time get supplies. Where do the Pakistan "mujihedeen" get their money? From the Saudi's.. and where do they get their money.. it's a no brainer now.


Those are my views.. in my opinion if any group oppress and massacre/kill others because of their beliefs are acting in a hypocritical. Have you ever seen Taliban speak on Palestine?

Sorry if I offended anyone but I'm just letting it out.

-MM
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Arsalan
05/15/01 at 19:08:25
Wa'alaikum assalam,
[quote]Since the Taliban no improvement has been made (no offense). [/quote]Improvement in what sense? †I think there have been improvements in certain areas. †The country is the only country in the world who can boast to be implementing a Law which is closer to the Qur'an and Sunnah than any other in the world. †That to me is the greatest achievement of all! †Despite all the odds against them. †Improvements in other areas are lacking, but a big factor is the isolation that the world community has forced upon them. †Things will take time. †As far as social harmony and the happiness of the general population, don't believe what the Media says. †The Afghani people are very happy with the current regime. †I think there was a thread some time ago which talked about this fact (?)

[quote]Look at the current situation the people are suffering, starving, massacred over 1000s of people, [/quote]Don't blame the suffering and starving on the Taliban. †Blame it on the world community who have placed sanctions on the Afghani people.

[quote]killed any person who has different opinion as they do (particularly the Shia),[/quote]If you live in a country, you have to live by their law. †If the people disobey the law, then they will have to bear the consequences. †Now if the Taliban are persecuting people simply because they are "shi'as" as you say, then we have problems. †But where did you learn this from? †And is this source reliable? †Remember, there is a LOT of false propaganda against the Taliban out there. †

[quote]women rights oppressed (rawa.org), [/quote]For those who don't know what RAWA (Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan) is all about, this is from the web site:
[color=blue]
The government we want

Our concept of government in Afghanistan is very simple: It should be based on democratic values and it should ensure freedom of thought, religion and political expression while safeguarding women's rights. It is an obvious fact that fundamentalists of all types use the name of Islam to justify and legitimize their violent madness. Therefore, RAWA stands for a separation of religious and political processes in Afghanistan. Though the fanatical groups label secularism as a 'communistic' idea and term it a 'faith of the infidels,' RAWA firmly believes that only a government with secular orientation can thwart the nefarious designs of these reactionaries from the Dark Ages. It is only a secular government that can prevent the religion of Islam from being used as a retrogressive tool in the hands of fanatics. The people of Afghanistan have been Muslims for the past several centuries and will not allow gangs of rapists, murderers and traitors to teach them their faith with a stick once again.


The Islamic hejab (veil)

We believe that aside from their inhuman misogynistic ideas, Islamic fundamentalists in Afghanistan have no plans for socioeconomic reconstruction. Nor do they have a decent concept for the country. Therefore, since their seizure of power, the fundamentalists have had to employ a fig leaf of irrelevant and artificial issues such as the "Islamic veil," put forward as vital priorities. Like every other oppressive means by which they wish to achieve their aims, the fundamentalists want to use the Koran as a bogey, even though wearing the veil has not been explicitly commanded in the Koran.

We will never allow the fundamentalists to define and decree what women should or should not wear. They have no right to impose the veil upon us. As far as we are concerned, we will NOT wear the veil as far as security and social discretion allow us, for we regard rejection of the veil as a symbolic form of resistance and defiance of the fundamentalists. To wear, or not to wear, the Islamic veil is a completely personal issue and no one has the right to interfere with this decision or impose the veil upon us.

We believe wearing the veil is a cultural issue, not a religious one. The fundamentalists want to paint this issue in religious hues and by forcing women to wear the veil, unleash their misogynism through terror and oppression. Their ultimate objective is to keep women under their absolute power, in the status of chattel.[/color]

No comment!

[quote]and stupid rules which they implement which has nothing to do with Islam. [/quote]Like?

[quote]I thought there was no complusion?[/quote]What made you think that? †If it's Surat-al-Baqarah, you misunderstood the ayah. †The compulsion which the Qur'an talks about is the compulsion to accept Islam. †Once a person accepts Islam, then s/he is *compelled* to abide by its rulings. †In an Islamic state, the State has the authority to compel people to follow certain injunctions. †Remember the jihad of Abu Bakr against those who refused to pay the zakaah? †Is that not compulsion? †Remember the hadith which commands the parents to *beat* their children if they don't pray the 5 prayers by the age of puberty? †Is that not compulsion? †Sure it is!

[quote]My friend was telling me when he lived there men who didn't have long enough beards (according to them) were kidnapped and beaten, not waking up for Fajr by mistake also got a beating (including smal children), "other" Muslims couldn't practice because it differed from theirs. I can't go on. [/quote]I don't know what to make of these reports. †If they are true, then surely there is something wrong. †But they sound extremely strange. †Especially after reading the first post of Kashif.

[quote]Just recently they spent thousands on what? Destroying a bunch of Buddha statues? [/quote]Why and how can it cost "thousands" to destroy statues? †It should cost nothing! †It's destruction!?!

They destroyed the statues because of all the money which was being offered to repair the ancient statues whereas the children of Afghanistan were dying out of the famine. †In order to divert the money towards aiding the victims of the famine, they chose to destroy the statues. †This is what the Afghan ambassador said in his visit to the US.

[quote]Why didn't they use the money to help their people? And Tammy Din is correct.. Taliban denounce UN so much but at the same time get supplies. [/quote]The Prophet (pbuh) denounced the Quraish also didn't they? †They denounced the practices, their teachings, their hostility towards the Truth and those who followed it, their worship, etc. †But at the same time, in Makkah, he accepted their help, their protection (walayah), and their alliance (in Madina). †What's wrong with it?

[quote]Where do the Pakistan "mujihedeen" get their money? From the Saudi's.. [/quote]Cite your proof! †You have no right to make this accusation on the mujahideen. †The Saudi government gives zilch to its own daa'ees and mujahideen, let alone the Pakistani mujahideen! †The mujahideen get money (a very little amount btw) from the people, not the Saudi government. †The members of the Islamic groups in Pakistan, as well as people in general, are the ones who give donations for aiding the Mujahideen. †You will see many groups outside the masaajid after jumu'ah collecting aids. †Go there and see it for yourself! †It's no secret.

Wassalaamu alaikum.

Arsalan

Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Saleema
05/15/01 at 01:37:02
[slm]

MMohammad, no offense, but I also know a family here that came from Afghanistan a year ago who have the same claims as your friend. Well, they found their religious freedom here. Cuz their daughters finally get to wear short skirts and do haram things that they couldn't do back in Afghanistan. Sorry, but most often, people like that from Afghanistan have communist roots. When the Taliban took over Afghanistan, there was a great flood of prostitues and topless dancers into Islamabad, Pakistan and they opened up underground clubs there. They were all driven out and most of them migrated to western countries.

[wlm]
Saleema
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
jehad
05/18/01 at 11:06:40
rawa? RAWA?
Why are you using a kufr organisation as a source of Islam?
Every one here knows that I am not a fan of the taliban!
but I would like to make it absolutely clear that when it comes to every attack made on them by the kaffar or kaffar wannabes like rawa, I agree with what the taliban have done completely.
People like rawa and kaffars, hate taliban for the Islam they have implemented, my attacks on them is due to what they have not done. If [..] rawa hate taliban for implementing some Islam, they will hate the khilafah a infinite amount more.
[..]


[color=red][Edited by Moderator][/color]



It's lost all meaning now that it's been modified
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
BroHanif
05/15/01 at 09:05:41
A.W.W.

To everyone including me on this board, remember we all have to give an account to every deed on the day of judgement that we have carried out

AL ZALZALAH (99:7)

And whoso doeth good an atom's weight will see it then,

AL ZALZALAH (99:8)

And whoso doeth ill an atom's weight will see it then

When posting please use language that is appropriate and not filled with vile and debasing words.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
MMohammad
05/15/01 at 16:01:04
Salaam,

"The country is the only country in the world who can boast to be implementing a Law which is closer to the Qur'an and Sunnah than any other in the world.  That to me is the greatest achievement of all!"

Umm, thats a pure opinion because I don't agree and others don't either. Personally I feel Iran has the closest to Quran and Sunnah. Why? Have you visited? Its one of only "Muslim" countries where you see women driving cars, running schools, teaching, having their own women stadiums for basketball, etc. While implementing shari'a.

"Blame it on the world community?"

I agree with this statement but Taliban hasn't shown it wants any help.

About the Shia.. where heres the evidence:

"The first detailed eyewitness accounts of the massacre of up to 8,000 people by Islamic fundamentalist Taliban fighters who ran amok in the northern Afghan city of Mazar-e-Sharif last August have been passed to western governments.

Testimony compiled by international observers and handed to western diplomats in Pakistan reveals that hundreds of people were packed into containers where they suffocated when the doors were locked in the searing midday heat. Men, women and children were shot in their homes and on the street, and hospital patients were murdered in their beds...

Statements made available to The Sunday Times describe a campaign of slaughter directed against a Shia Muslim minority, the Hazara. The evidence, regarded by experienced aid officials as "highly credible", paints a ghastly picture of butchery and rape as the Taliban shot and cut the throats of Hazaras.

The claims are supported by the influential American group Human Rights Watch, which is due to reveal its own findings on the massacre today and will call on the United Nations to investigate what it describes as "one of the single worst examples of killings of civilians in Afghanistan's 20-year war".

The detailed evidence of Taliban atrocities will embarrass western policymakers who still see the fundamentalists as useful players in a modern "great game" to keep Iranian and Russian influence out of Afghanistan and so ensure that the huge oil and gas riches of central Asia remain a prize for western multinationals...

The Taliban fighters swept through the city, firing heavy machineguns mounted on pickup trucks. One man described how the streets were covered with bodies and blood. The Taliban, he said, forbade anyone to bury the corpses for six days. "

I can't go on any further. If you want to see pictures (which are graphic) you can go here.. http://www.oppression.org/asia/taliban_genocide.html

--

And how about the recent burning of the Irani embassy and the Shia masjids which they said was retaliation? For what? They had no evidence. I know the people did it, not the Taliban but why didn't they do anything after the first event of violence?

The Buddha statues used a lot of ammo, and artilerry. That costs alot! :) And about RAWA.. thas their opinion. Some people say veil is not wajib only scarf is wajib (along with hands until wrists, and legs until ankles). Anyway, I dont want to dwell on this issue any longer.. I hope you see it now brother.

One more thing ... Sister Saleemna my friend can now pray on a mud (Shias prostrate on it) without being attacked. He can now do Azaadari, and commemorate Ashoor and Arabeen.


Thank you.
Ws

PS: Aside from this topic.. if a person (Muslim) is forced to pray in a certain country and shows us when he leaves that country he doesn't want to pray (by not praying) isn't that almost the same thing as praying in that country which forced you? Because when you pray in that country, your ONLY praying because you haveto not for Allah's sake... ?
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
BroHanif
05/15/01 at 19:25:41
*The post below was taken from Islamway.com* Just too good to miss out
Yes in fact, the Taliban ARE a government to be proud of, and those who take
† † † † † † † † † † † † pride in this government and look up to it are the mu'mineen.

† † † † † † † † † † † † The Taliban rule by the Qur'an and Sunnah.
† † † † † † † † † † † † What more could you want? Do you want them to conform to the desires of
† † † † † † † † † † † † the Western agressors and oppressors? Do you want them to conform to the
† † † † † † † † † † † † claims and accusations of the apologetic ones? The bootlickers?

† † † † † † † † † † † † The Taliban, who are made up of mujahideen, who when they heard over the
† † † † † † † † † † † † radio that Soviet gunships lay in ambush up ahead, they woul yell the takbeer
† † † † † † † † † † † † and step on the accelerator?

† † † † † † † † † † † † The Taliban, in front of which so many rebellious groups buckled simply
† † † † † † † † † † † † because those groups couldn't bear the guilt of fighting against such a
† † † † † † † † † † † † fight-for-the-Deen-only intensive group?

† † † † † † † † † † † † The Taliban, led by Ameerul-Mumineen Muhammad Umar, may Allah protect
† † † † † † † † † † † † him, who in battle, pulled out his bloody eyeball because it was hindering him
† † † † † † † † † † † † on the path of Allah and wiped his hands on the walls of a masjid?

† † † † † † † † † † † † The Taliban, who have repeatedly said they will not accept any rule that
† † † † † † † † † † † † contradicts the Shariah'?

† † † † † † † † † † † † The Taliban, who have refused to hand over a Mu'min mujahid who stands
† † † † † † † † † † † † falsely accused, no matter how much the Kuffar may dislike it?

† † † † † † † † † † † † The Taliban, who have withstood the pressure of the entire world, who have
† † † † † † † † † † † † withstood the mis-placed anger of some mislead Muslims, the Taliban, who
† † † † † † † † † † † † have withstood massive missile strikes by the U.S., they have withstood
† † † † † † † † † † † † years of drought and famine, they've been through over 20 years of war
† † † † † † † † † † † † against the enemies of Allah and they STILL come out on top, they've
† † † † † † † † † † † † withstood B2B sanctions, they've overcome a one-sided arms embargo,
† † † † † † † † † † † † they're fighting against a rebellious faction, the UF/NA, that is backed by
† † † † † † † † † † † † FIVE other countries and the European Union, they've put down civil unrest in
† † † † † † † † † † † † the vast majority of their country within a FEW MONTHS,...in other words, so
† † † † † † † † † † † † far they've been UNSTOPPABLE, bi-idnillah! And now with an impending
† † † † † † † † † † † † joint-invasion by the Kuffar once again, the Taliban are still standing up to it!

† † † † † † † † † † † † Are you referring to the Taliban + the Afghanistanis, who are described by the
† † † † † † † † † † † † Kuffar as being the MOST RESILIENT NATION ON THE FACE OF THIS EARTH.

† † † † † † † † † † † † Are you talking about the Taliban, when their black banners of war appear
† † † † † † † † † † † † over the killing fields, signal death and destruction for the enemy? The enemy
† † † † † † † † † † † † of Allah and the Believers.

† † † † † † † † † † † † Are you talking about the Taliban, who's kids when they play in the streets,
† † † † † † † † † † † † sing about marching from Kabul to bayt el-Maqdis?

† † † † † † † † † † † † Are you talking about the Taliban, upon whom Allah's Help has most surely
† † † † † † † † † † † † been evident?

† † † † † † † † † † † † Are you talking about the Taliban who destroyed the idols of SHIRK, even
† † † † † † † † † † † † though the whole world gathered together to prevent them from doing so?

† † † † † † † † † † † † Are you talking about the Taliban who's reputation for justice and fairness has
† † † † † † † † † † † † preceded them by far, the same Taliban who's arrival is eagerly awaited by
† † † † † † † † † † † † the people being opressed under UF/NA rule?!

† † † † † † † † † † † † Are you cursing or disrespecting the Taliban, the same Taliban about whom
† † † † † † † † † † † † the scholars and the mujahideen have called upon the Muslims to give bay'ah
† † † † † † † † † † † † to them?

† † † † † † † † † † † † If you cannot join them, then make dua' for
† † † † † † † † † † † † them. But do not curse them, revile them, or disrespect them. Surely they
† † † † † † † † † † † † are far above you in rank in the sight of Allah, as He has said in Surah
† † † † † † † † † † † † an-Nisaa' 95-96.

† † † † † † † † † † † † Do you not know that Allah's Rasul, the most honorable man amongst all of
† † † † † † † † † † † † humanity, the man who was sent to ALL NATIONS, do you know that
† † † † † † † † † † † † Muhammad [saws] said that an army would come from Khurasan with the
† † † † † † † † † † † † black banners, and that they would be victorious against their enemies, and
† † † † † † † † † † † † that NO ONE..... NO ONE...would be able to stop them!!! They will march to
† † † † † † † † † † † † bayt-el-Maqdis and establish their standards there, and NO ONE will be able
† † † † † † † † † † † † to stop them.

† † † † † † † † † † † † The Israelis? The Russians? The Americans? NATO? The UN??! What are all
† † † † † † † † † † † † these when compared to the Mujahideen? Can you have a super-soldier
† † † † † † † † † † † † breed better than the Mujahideen?! CAN YOU? How can any soldier be better
† † † † † † † † † † † † than the mujahid that is on horseback by day, moving strong against the
† † † † † † † † † † † † enemies of Allah, spilling his blood on the battlefields for the sake of Allah, so
† † † † † † † † † † † † that Islam may hold her head high in honor, and this same mujahid, at night,
† † † † † † † † † † † † is in Sujood, with tears rolling down his face, asking Allah to forgive him and
† † † † † † † † † † † † save him from Jahannam?

† † † † † † † † † † † † How can these mujahideen, who have the prayers of the Hur and the prayers
† † † † † † † † † † † † of the Believers with them, they have the aid of fierce angels that sow fear
† † † † † † † † † † † † and death amongst enemey ranks, they have the aid of flocks of birds that
† † † † † † † † † † † † can divert the payload of a Soviet bomber away from a Muslim city, they
† † † † † † † † † † † † have the aid of the animals in the ocean, in the sky and on the ground, all by
† † † † † † † † † † † † the command of Allah, how can any soldier be better than the Mujahideen?

† † † † † † † † † † † † These Mujahideen, who have laid down their blood and their lives for ISLAM,
† † † † † † † † † † † † and NOT some worldly motive, how can you dare insult them?!! They have
† † † † † † † † † † † † given that which is most precious to anyone, their LIFE. They strive day and
† † † † † † † † † † † † night against the enemies of Allah, they eat stale bread or sometimes
† † † † † † † † † † † † nothing at all, the sky is the roof over their heads.

† † † † † † † † † † † † These mujahideen, who now make up the ranks of the Taliban, and are
† † † † † † † † † † † † striving to establish a government based on the Qur'an and Sunnah, so that
† † † † † † † † † † † † Muslims can once again challenge Shirjk and Kufr which has spread over the
† † † † † † † † † † † † earth once again.

† † † † † † † † † † † † You have two choices,

† † † † † † † † † † † † 1] Either you support the Taliban, because they know what they're doing,
† † † † † † † † † † † † they're sincere, they're very good at what they're doing, and they're the
† † † † † † † † † † † † ONLY ones doing it!

† † † † † † † † † † † † 2] Or you go against them. FOR WHATEVER REASON. If you do that, then you
† † † † † † † † † † † † can join the Kuffar and the munafiqeen in their steady flow of accusations
† † † † † † † † † † † † against the Taliban.

† † † † † † † † † † † † Understood?!

† † † † † † † † † † † † References for Jaysh-el-Khurasaan:

† † † † † † † † † † † † [1] Ibn Kathir's "al-Bidayah wan-Nihayah"
† † † † † † † † † † † † -look to the chapter of Signs of Judgment Day. This chapter is available as an
† † † † † † † † † † † † entire separate book, entitled "Signs of the Day of Judgment" by Ibn Kathir.

† † † † † † † † † † † † [2] On the authority of Thawbaan (May Allah be pleased with him), the
† † † † † † † † † † † † Messenger of Allah (SAWS) said:

† † † † † † † † † † † † "If you see the Black Banners coming from Khurasan go to them immediately,
† † † † † † † † † † † † even if you must crawl over ice, because indeed amongst them is the Caliph,
† † † † † † † † † † † † Al Mahdi."

† † † † † † † † † † † † [Ibn Majah, Al-Hakim, Ahmad]


† † † † † † † † † † † † Don't forget to check out:
† † † † † † † † † † † † http://www.azzam.com/html/talibanhome.htm

Allah has sent us the Black Banners of Khorasan, lets put em to good use


[color=red][edited by moderator][/color]
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
MMohammad
05/15/01 at 22:43:10
We all know islamway.com are strong supporters of the Taliban.

"Or you go against them. FOR WHATEVER REASON. If you do that, then you
                       can join the Kuffar and the munafiqeen in their steady flow of accusations
                       against the Taliban. "

No comment. You have all the evidence.. you decide.

Ws
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
PacificBreeze
05/16/01 at 19:29:35
um. i seriously think the talibans aren't the big bad wolf the US n media wants u to believe...it's all hype...for their own agendas.. :)

saleema: yeah same thing with those 'persians' etc.. ;)
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Sharifa
05/17/01 at 21:37:51
Interesting posts...

One thing we should all be careful of is this...if we are not eyewitnesses, we should not judge anything.  I cannot judge whether I  advocate Taliban or go against them.  There are positives and negatives in any situation.  So much is hearsay...how can we judge what is right?  I have heard the "atrocities" and the "mercies" of the Taliban..from Afghan People.

As for the US, I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the situation.  The US pretends that they are "humanitarians", against those who commit "human rights" violations...but most of the money and weapons floating around started here.

Alhamdulilah, Allah is the greatest of planners.  What will be for Afghanistan will be.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
chachi
05/17/01 at 22:46:53

As i recall when ahmed shah massoud (a ferengi culture loving naqshbandi tajik) and his crony from uzbekistan 'general' Dostum (a communist bandit)  and the hazaras (mongol shia's) sat down and signed a peace agreement with the help of india , iran and russia..the only people who lost out were the people of the sunnah..who are mostly pathans..for the next couple of months our houses were looted our kids were raped and our mosques were desecrated by a unholy alliance between communists shias naqshbandi's and various other bandits

Until angered by this the the ulema and the teachers in madrassah's said enough was enough . The only people in the pakistani army who helped were those who were good muslims and those who supported the taliban because it is largely a pathan movement

None of these peoples in afghanistan have any right to treat the pathans in this way..this is like somebody visiting your house as a guest then taking kicking you out and saying it's his house

the taliban are followers of the school of imam abu hanifa and the scholars that proceeded him in south asia ..we have no interest in the various bidah developed in the middle east by scholars in the pay of tyrants who justify oppression or justify the defeats that their rulers suffer..we do not care for whether the kaffirun love us or hate us..since we do not exist to please them or their agents in RAWA or other groups..victory is from allah (swt) as is defeat but the Quran is eternal and although the caliphs and the pious predecessors are no longer with us we are their inheritors ..and their words and deeds are our law until the Day of Reckoning.
If any are able show us the proof that destroying statues that belong to a people who are not citizens of an islamic state is forbidden..have any of the statues of the hindu's who live in afghanistan been destroyed?

what afghans/pathans do to rocks in their country is nobody's business and if anybody has a problem with it they can come and join the bones of the russian, british, persian, greek, indian, central asian, hun , mongol and other empires that believed they were granted power by allah (swt) to rule the earth..'look upon my works O ye mighty and despair...'
 
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Saleema
05/18/01 at 01:06:02
[slm]

None of these peoples in afghanistan have any right to treat the pathans in this way..this is like somebody visiting your house as a guest then taking kicking you out and saying it's his house

This is what Israel did to the Palestinains.

But anyway, not all pakistanis support the Taliban. There are many Pakistanis that hate them. The most support that they get is from the people in the state of Sarhad. People over there are very conservative mostly and are pathans or are desendants of Pathans. A lot of Hindko speaking people support the Taliban too.

A friend and I were discussing yesterday the main reason behind why the Pakistani government supports Afghanistan. (1)Afghanistan is a good ally because they will help Pakistanis because they are Muslims, if the Indians ever went to war with Pakistan. (2) Afghanistan is waiting to be exploited for it's resources, like Kashmir is. (3)Afghanistanis do help and will help more so in the future with the Kashmiri issue militarily. (4) The people in Sarhad have a strong desire to join under an Islamic state with Afghanistan in the *far* future. They do not want to break away from Pakistan but if anything happens in the future where Pakistan will join the West or Iran in killing the Islamic movement in Afghanistan then they will pick up their guns and break away froi Pakistan. The Sarhad people have half as many guns as the army of Pakistan. And they will melt down all metal in sight to make more. Their women will join them too.

Every pathan, hindko speaking family I have met, they all know how to use guns or someone in their family does and have at least two or more guns.

Pathans are very simple people, many of them anyway, their clothes are simple, even their food is simple. :) And we tend to keep that simplicity and conservetismeven when we move to the west.

[wlm]
Saleema




Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
MMohammad
05/18/01 at 01:10:22
Salaam,

Chachi, can you please present me some proof to confirm what you claim. And .. "granted power by allah." I hope I know what you're talking about.

Tammy: If I do something good for the Muslims but at the same time do something haraam am I a good Muslim? No, because I'm doing something haraam but I am helping a little. In other words I'm a hypocrite.

Don't get me wrong I don't support US but I don't support a corrupt regime like the Taliban. Here I present more evidence if any of you have doubt -

"The Taliban is the first faction laying claim to power in Afghanistan, that has targeted women for extreme repression and punished them brutally for infractions. To our knowledge, no other regime in the world has methodically and violently forced half of its population into virtual house arrest, prohibiting them on pain of physical punishment from showing their faces, seeking medical care without a male escort, or attending school. "

"The Taliban's abuses are by no means limited to women. Thousands of men have been taken prisoner, arbitrarily detained, tortured, and many killed and disappeared. Men are beaten and jailed for wearing beards of insufficient length (that of a clenched fist beneath the chin), are subjected to cruel and degrading conditions in jail, and suffer such punishments as amputation and stoning. Men are also vulnerable to extortion, arrest, gang rape, and abuse in detention because of their ethnicity or presumed political views. The Taliban's Shari'a courts lack even a semblance of due process, with no provisions for legal counsel and frequent use of torture to extract confessions. "

All of this information was studies and investigated.. -

"PHR's strategy for documenting the health and human rights problems of Afghan women included both qualitative and quantitative methods in researching three different sources of evidence (methodological triangulation). This approach facilitated corroboration between different sources of evidence and methods.

The three components of the study included:


a women's health and human rights survey of 160 Afghan women,
forty case testimonies of Afghan women, and
interviews with 12 humanitarian assistance providers, health personnel or other experts.

In addition, the direct observations of PHR's investigator have enhanced the documentation. The domains of inquiry for each study component included Afghan women's:


physical health status and access to health care,
mental health status,
war-related trauma and landmine exposures,
experiences of abuse by Taliban officials, and
attitudes toward women's human rights.

The information included in this report was collected during a three-month period in the beginning of 1998. Women who participated in the health and human rights survey and case testimonies were from all walks of life, ethnic groups, educational levels and economic backgrounds. The participants included women currently living in Kabul and Afghan women who recently migrated to Pakistan. All participants lived in Kabul for most of their lives and for at least one year after the Taliban took control of Kabul in September 1996. "

--

Here are some websites (Muslim sites) which some of you at home won't beleive..

http://www.rawa.org/rospi.htm
Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan reports growing prostitution and AIDS infections under the Taliban regime.

http://www.afghan-web.com/ - Latest Afghani news and how the Taliban take advantage and abuse their power.

To end my post, heres a poem dedicated to Afghani women.. -

I remember you...
I remember you...

when you have no choice, no voice, no rights, no existence
when you have no laughs, no joy, no freedom, no resistance
your pain, your agony, your silence, your loneliness
your anger, your frustration, your cries, your unhappiness

I remember you...

when you are abused, attacked, beaten and veiled
when you are tortured, strangled, choked and almost killed
you feel numbness, nothingness, lifelessness and tears
your are a shadow, a ghost, a creature with many fears

I remember you...

when you in the darkness, stillness of a star-less night
lift your arms to the sky, with sadness and fright
and ask the universe with eyes full of tears and pain
why all these crimes? for what reason? can anyone explain?

I remember you...

when you finally will rise and stand on your feet!
and say " No! I will not stand for anymore defeat!"
you will break the chains, burn the veil and destroy the walls!
you will scream with all your might "Damn you all!"

I remember you...

when you take the solemn oath that you will struggle, resist and fight
that you will gain your freedom with all your might
that you will never give up, no matter how heavy the cost
never again will you be confused, pitiful and lost

I remember you...

when you gain your rights, reach your goals and hope(s)
but the path is hard, full of obstacles, you must learn how to cope
to cope while struggling for your ultimate goal
a-reborn woman, free, independent and whole


---

If you want more I can present to you but I think this is enough. I don't want to waste my time. If you can't see it now, then it's hopeless. But .. pictures don't lie!

Ma'Salaama
MMohammad
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Saleema
05/18/01 at 01:19:14
[slm]

You know what MMohammad? The stae that you call an Islamic state, Iran, where all sorts of weird "Islamic" sects emerge from, the people over there don't seem very happy with "islam" and claim that the government is too strict and that it abuses the rights of women. So what if they can drive there? Not many men drive in Afghanistan either. Wow. What freedom and love of Islam. I guess that's why Iranian women come on CNN and say they hate wearing hijab.

[wlm]
Saleema
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
bhaloo
05/18/01 at 01:38:39
slm

MMohammad, you said that pictures don't lie, but what was wrong with the pictures in those websites?  I didn't see any problem with them.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Yusuf
05/18/01 at 11:42:44
This is the sad condition of the Ummmah that we are in today. People would rather sit on-line "exposing" the Taliban using non-Muslim sources, than talk about the corrupt, anti-Muslim Kafir government of the country they live in. Very sad.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
MMohammad
05/18/01 at 18:45:40
Salaamun Alaikum,

Saleema.. I don't know what you're talking about. Have you been there? I have and its great. What abuses? I'm not saying Iran is perfect because no nation is perfect but its far better than Taliban. Go read the Iranian Constitution and see the Sharia.

Yusuf.. my intent was not to expose Taliban but I had to say something after hearing all of these compliments. And I use muslim sources.. :)

I don't want to continue this thread because I believe if we go any further it'll get out of hand. You have your views I have mine and we both expressed them. Now lets move on..

I have a question .. is veil required in Islam or is it ok just to wear scarf and cover hands (until wrists) and legs (until ankles) or do we need to cover everything head from toe.. ?

JazakumAllah Kheir
Ws
MMohammad
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
BroHanif
05/18/01 at 19:31:25
A.W.W.

The Iranian Constituition, I thought they were based on the law of Allah and the Sharia i.e following prophet mohammed saws and his companions. Why NMohammed dear me fellow are they on somthing else now... please do tell us which law is this. And the Sharia,...??? call again.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
chachi
05/18/01 at 20:50:09

Hmm MMOHAMMED the british believed that god granted them the empire..the russians believed that economics granted them their empire...the persians believed god granted them their empire...all these clowns believed they were destined to rule over other races..ask a central asian what the russian term for them was..

It's not my intention to start a Iran bashing post here..just pointing out the iranians are falling into a classical fallacy the belief that countries can be united by force...the pakistani government knows that pakistan and afghanistan will be one country in the future once the level between them both stabilises..iran is trying to rush the process by brute force..no pathan will accept being a slave of anyone..being a citizen of a state as an equal is something else
Fw: What the Hazaris did to the Taliban...
Kashif
05/18/01 at 21:36:41
What are some of the main complaints against the Taliban without going into whether they are true or not?

* Forcing women to cover any and all of their `awrah
* Forcing men to grow beards
* Forbidding music
* Forcing segregation in society and schools
* A mass slaughter of Hazaras in Mazar-e-Shareef after its take over
* Closing girls' schools in contended areas (areas of fighting)
* Cutting off hands of thieves
* Allowing family members of murder victims to kill their murderers (after they have been found guilty bi-shar`an)

What are some of the main complaints against the former "mujaahideen" groups (who today mostly make up the "Northern Alliance" of bandits)

* Rape (of men, women, children, young and old)
* Kidnapping
* Sex Slave trade with Pakistan and Iran
* Drug trade
* Indiscriminate murder if non-combatants
* Arms dealing in Pakistan and Iran
* Corruption: Amassing great amounts of wealth (Swiss bank accounts etc) by selling women, drugs and weapons accumulated from the United States and Russia
* Killing even each other: Before the Taliban every other week they would break ties and start killing each other, then make peace again
* the list goes on

These accusations about the Taliban as well as their enemies is well
documented. I CHALLENGE you to substantiate any other claim against the Taliban with reliable sources. As for the alleged killing of Hazaras in Mazare Shareef this is something that has been intentionally manipulated.
Please read the following regarding WHY so many Hazara COMBATANTS were
killed:

http://web.amnesty.org/802568F7005C4453/0/A034ECA8FBCC2E678025690000692FA8!Open&Highlight=2,afghanistan

I don't have time to go into much detail regarding the Shi`ite Hazara
population in Afghanistan ... Most of them are Isma`ili and not even considered Muslim by the 12'er Shi1`ites themselves.

Today they are converting to Christianity in droves simply to oppose the religious Muslim Pashtoons of Afghanistan whom they hate with a passion. One of the largest Hazara web sites on the internet
[url deleted] is run by such a Hazara who converted to Christianity and is actively converting other ignorant Afghans from Islam to Christianity and doing translations of material from English to various Afghan languages. During the Soviet Invasion they would infiltrate Mujaahideen ranks and then start killing the mujaahideen in the heat of the battle. They were shown in Newsweek smiling over the dead bodies of mujaahideen they had killed. They are called "Hazara" because they were summarily exterminated for their loyalty to the Mongols until there were only 1000 left. "Hazaar" means "1000" in Persian. They are mostly the descendants of Chinese mercinaries who came to Afghanistan with the invading armies of Hulaku Khan and successive Mongol kaafirs.

Anyways, I encourage you to look into the subject yourself and even GO to Afghanistan yourself the way Shaykh al-Qaradawi did consequently changing his mind and praising the Taleban (something which must have enraged you). May Allah reward the Shaykh for openly admitting his mistake. If you will not go to Afghanistan, or at least get reliable information from people there or who have been there, then please do not comment on subjects you do not have knowledge. Jazaakum Allah khayr.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
chachi
05/18/01 at 23:54:46
The last post said it better than me so theres no reason for me to repeat

anyway the usa did INITIALLY support the taliban because they didn't want iran to assume control and have a pipeline running through afghanistan to iran..now they are more lukewarm because they want to keep ossama as a bogeyman and also want to keep iran in check

have to congratulate kashif on the historical info
in the uk even most pathans have forgotten who the hazaras
were and who put them in power

anyway they were responsible for utterly destroying the irrigation system of afghanstan which consisted of underground canals created over thousands of years..thus turning afghanistan into a desert because they wanted to starve the pathans to death
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Saleema
05/19/01 at 00:25:23
Go read the Iranian Constitution and see the Sharia.

The American constitution is beautiful too. So is Pakistan's. But so what? None of them follow most of what they say.

The Iranians en masse aren't happy with the "Islamic" state and want to get rid of khomeni, however you spell his name, because they think he's too Islamic.

[wlm]
Saleema
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
MMohammad
05/19/01 at 01:16:10
Salaam,

Kashif, when I say oppression against the Shiites I mean the Twelver Shiites, and the Hazara (most of them) are Shia. I don't care what they did and why they are getting massacred .. what did their children do? And they were not mongols.. your history is flawed brother. And its not only the Hazara.. its ALL who oppose or disagree wih the Taliban being slain. You call that Islam?

Sister Saleema, there are always some people that will always be against something or someone. Please provide some kind evidence before you post such comments. All of this hype with Ayatullah Khatami and Khamani is bs.. :) Its only a disagreement on trade, and business matters. They make it look like its another Revolution.

Bro Hanif the Iranian Cons. is the Sharia.. :)

Yes I know the news is filtered here in US but i get my souces from Muslim newspapers, (esp. on Taliban). Let me clear something else up with you people, I don't support the other alliances in Afghanistan either but I strong condemn Taliban for their abuses.

Theres no excuse in killing innocent women and civilians for believing in something different. Period!

Ws
MMohammad
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Saleema
05/19/01 at 02:40:48
Its only a disagreement on trade, and business matters.

I'm not an idiot and nor is the rest of the world. Where do you get your information from? What evidence do you want? You seem to claim to know a lot about Iranian politics and if that is the case then you should know that people en masse are opposing the current iranian leadership becuse they are too "Islamic." If people don't know general facts about something, then they shouldn't argue. They should look it up. I'm not providing any evidence to you, sorry. No disrespect. I don't have time and I don't work as a researcher.

Disagreement over trade and business are there but that's not at the core of all the controversy. All newspapers, including from other Islamic countries report the same things, and I have seen live interviews of women saying they hate wearing the hijab on CNN. I'm pretty sure if you call them up and ask for a transcript or a video of such interviews, they will be avialable for money.

Yes, there are people there that don't oppose the government but there are people on the other side equalling them in numbers. If Iran was such an "Islamic" state then weird religions claiming to be Muslims wouldn't pop out of there at such an alarming rate, historically speaking that is. †There's too many weird religions that have had their origins in Iran. Where is the Islamic environment in Iran that kills these germs or keeps them at bay? Obviously there's a huge lack of it. Islam is missing from the hearts of the people just like in any other country.

India, Israel, most Arab countries and Pakistan all like to call themeelves democratic. But they aren't. China calls its self the "*peoples* republic", but it doesn't seem to care that much for it's people. Iran can call itself an "Islamic" state, but it's not.
*********************************************************************
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=73176

Something's wrong in the state of Iran. Not just in terms of economics.
*********************************************************************


[wlm]
Saleema
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Kashif
05/19/01 at 08:44:11
[quote]The American constitution is beautiful too[/quote]
assalaamu alaikum
I remember someone saying once that the original American constitution stated that a black man was equal to 3/5ths of a white man. Is that true?

Kashif
Wa Salaam
NS
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
bhaloo
05/19/01 at 08:49:39
slm

Yes, Kashif, that had to do with voting.  I think its somewhere between the 13th though 16th amendment.  You can read it in the consitution today even, but that law was then ammended.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
jehad
05/19/01 at 14:11:22
All the constitutions mentioned are clear bidah, shirk and lack of tawheed.
The Iranian constitution is a copy of the French. There are usul every one agrees on: quran sunnah, ijma as sahaba and qiyas.
There are other usul which some people agree with and others don't: marsalah mursalah, estesan, ijma al ahlal madinah, ijma al ahlal bait, ijma al ulimah, ijma al umah etc
BUT who considers the French frog eating kaffar as a source of shriah?
It seems that the Iranian bidiahi rulers and their bidahi supporters do!
I donít think there is anything nice about any of them even though the people who writ them and claim to follow them rule by something worse.
They are all man made laws!
We are the people of tawheed!
We love Allah, and consider him as the only one who can tell us how to rule a country.

_________________________________________________________
modification.
I don't mean any offense to any French Muslims. I have met very many nice people from France.
I am not attacking French People or their diet, the non Muslims can eat what they want. This is purely a attack on man made law and the regime of Iran.

Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
MMohammad
05/19/01 at 14:26:27
Salaam,

Sister Saleema, where am I getting all of this information.. I've been there. Went there last summer for this Muslim tour. Don't believe everything you see. Ayatullah Khatami and Khomeni both said that regardless of who becomes elected the sharia will be implemented.

And jehad, show me any thing in the constitution where its bidah, shirk, etc. I got a feeling that you want to turn this into a Sunni-Shia debate. Well if you do email me in private and we'll debate, if you really want to.

Ws
MMohammad
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
jehad
05/19/01 at 14:37:24
If you have that feeling then you are paranoid, if you look at what I have written above I mention Ďijma al ah lal baití as a valid usul.
Iran is a republic, that means representatives from the people make the laws, just like France. So I am not saying that there is bidah and shirk in the constitution, I AM SAYING THE WHOLE THING IS BIDAH AND SHIRK.
As I have mentioned before, there are many usal, some are week and some are strong, but no one excepts the ramblings of the French kaffar as a valid one. Except the bidi people who rule Iran and their bidihi followers.
Iran and her bidiahi supporters are not the only bidahi people, all the regimes are based on bidah and their supporters use bidah to defend them. Even Suadi Aradia.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
MMohammad
05/19/01 at 15:53:22
How is bidah and shirk as a whole? Can you explain. Can you tell me one thing which doesn't agree with Quran? Please explain. And being paranoid.. I'm already used to it. :)  
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
chachi
05/19/01 at 16:01:59

Saleema stuff on CNN is no evidence of anything!
and no muslim should rely on what they say..the cnn is
a fiction factory

secondly the fact that CNN can find some people who can say that
they don't like wearing hijab is evidence FOR the fact
that iran allows freedom of speach...

by the way i'm sure if somebody from iran went to america
and reported on the government s/he would find more than
half the population to admit that the usa was run
by a secret elite and not the president ..that it had
assasinated it's own presidents in the past and engaged in
acts to muder dissidents...just because they can do this dosn't
say that it was true! ok?
re: posting
Kashif
05/19/01 at 19:40:03
[color=red]REMINDER[/color]
assalaamu alaikum
This is a polite reminder to participating brothers and sisters that it is against the Madinah's constitution to start a sunni v shi'a or any other inter-group fitnah on this forum. Thus far, the thread has been interesting to read and contribute to - lets keep it that way.

Kashif
Wa Salaam
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Saleema
05/19/01 at 23:15:21
secondly the fact that CNN can find some people who can say that
they don't like wearing hijab is evidence FOR the fact
that iran allows freedom of speach...


The supporters of shah, many of them fled the country after he was overthrown. And many are still living there, so i'm sure there are people there that don't want shariah.

Most nearly, every country is ruled by an elite, not just the US. And most every country engages in murders and other horrendous crimes, not just the US.

There are many consistent things that I have read about Iran in all sorts of newspapers, including the ones owned by Muslims. I find it hard to believe that there's a conspiricy against Iran on such a large scale in the media, including by Muslim countries. †

[wlm]
Saleema

Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
MMohammad
05/19/01 at 23:11:39
What newspapers? Can you name a few please? And where did Iraq come from? I thought we were talking about Iran.. maybe theres conspiracy because they are Shia muslims? I know a lot of people who are anti-Shia... :) Anyway, can you please name a few newspapers..
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Saleema
05/19/01 at 23:32:57
maybe theres conspiracy because they are Shia muslims? I know a lot of people who are anti-Shia... :)

):(

And I guess when shias crticize predominately sunni Muslim countries, they must all be anti-shia. I know many people who are anti-sunni...  :)
     
Why is it that whenever one says anything about Iran that's not praising their government it's automatically considered that that person is anti-shia? When someone criticizes Israel, you are automatically an anti-semite. When you criticize the US you are automatically anti-American.

You said to Jehad that he was trying to start an shia vs sunni argument. I think you are trying to do the same. I'm staying out of this thread.

[wlm]
Saleema
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
MMohammad
05/20/01 at 00:17:22
Can you name a newspaper? :) You asked why would Muslim newspapers critisize Iran and I gave you one possibility. Don't flip out. Iran is the only Shiite ran country and .. and that can be a reason. Can you give just ONE Muslim newspaper? I don't think you have any.. no disrespect. You make a lot of accusations but you give no proof or evidence of it. If you can't back it up.. dont say it! :)

Ws
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Saleema
05/20/01 at 23:01:33
[slm]

Jang. Pakistan Link.

If you pay me $200 an hour, i will research all articles related to this issue.

[wlm]
Saleema
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
jehad
05/21/01 at 08:27:26
If I am being accused of being anti Shiah, due to my criticism of the kufr regime of Iran, then the accuser is completely ignorant of Shiaism and Towhead and bidha.
Refutation of people accusing me of being anti Shiah by calling the Evil kufr regime of Iran and their ignorant bidahi supporters of being deviant.
Bidah means bringing new things in to the deen that are not taken from Islam.
If some thing is taken from Islam, it is taken from an Islamic source, Islamic usul.
I mention more then once that the source of the Iranian constitution was the French, if you don't believe me obtain it.
I mention a lot of different Islamic usuls, followed by different ulimah, one of the usols I mentioned was ijmah al ahlal bait, this is a Shiah usul. So if some one accuses me of being anti Shiah after they read me mentioning that, they are either completely ignorant of Shiaism, or they are some one who talks in reply to what some one has said with out even knowing what that person has said. What I writ was very small, so I can't see how it is possible to have missed it.

Now my attack on the kufr, bidahi, shirki, evil, wolf in sheep's clothing regime of Iran:
You asked me to mention stuff that the regime are doing that is kufr and bidahi, I think if I try and write every thing Jannah website account will run out of memory. So I will only mention some of the core issues, that other things emanate from.
Biddha means addition in to the deen. If some one starts doing salat with one foot on his head it is not for me to tell him a verse in the Koran that tells him it is Biddha to pray like that, it is for me to tell him there is no evidence in Islam for such a action, it is up to the biddahi to provide evidence from Islam to justify his action.
Iran is a republic, just like France. They call it a Islamic republic, Is there any justification in Islam for such a regime? Is that how our messenger ruled? Look in to all the Islamic usul, even the Shiah usol such as ijmah al ahlal bait, you will find no justification. Iran is clearly a bidahi regime from its very existence and foundation.
Iran is part of the UN, being part of the UN means you recognise international law, and you except international law above any other. This is shirk of the worse form.
Isn't Allah the only law maker? Who gave the gang of slaves in the UN to make laws? Isn't Allah the only law giver? Why would you except laws made by the UN, has Allah left any thing out of the Quran? So why would you need the UN's laws.
Iran is a nation state, with fixed boarders, due to its recognition of international law, this is clearly kufr. We are umuton wahid, what gave them the right to say these boarders belong to the Iranians and what is beyond them belong to others. The world belongs to Allah, and Allah made the world a wide expanse for us. What gives them the right to regard some Muslims as being citizens and others of being aliens, only due to a accident of birth?
The Iranian Economic system is based on paper money with no intrinsic value, just like all the other kufr regimes. This is resulting in inflation, as the money has no intrinsic value, and the government continues to print it, and doesn't secure it to something with a intrinsic value, such as gold. So they are stealing from the people. As the money in the pockets of every one, goes lower every time the regime prints ever increasing amounts of money.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Ali
05/21/01 at 12:30:54

assalam alaikum,

I believe that the US is working towards creating a sunni-shia civil war in Iraq. sunni-shia relations are worst there, neither side is particularly religious but both are vehemently sectarian.

it will keep the US in the gulf. who would want to see tham leave if it could prevent bloodshed? and what a propaganda coup for them. i know for a fact the US is funding both sides. some

btw, Saleema: can you hook me up with a pathan girl? masha'Allah they're very decent. but I can't seem to get a hook up here :(

btw MMuhammed you have really good adab, masha'Allah.

MMuhamed: as above (iranian not puthan) ;)

i can't seem to get married. i know that's a sister type comment, but I hate being alone, it sucks. i am not a 'i'm going out with the bros type of guy' i just want to get married. pure and simple. almaz.

my family can't really help me out either, because they don't know anyone. sorry if i changed the subject. please don't embarrass me by completely ignoring this post. (the 2 above people)

no matter how hard i try, i can't seem to find a sister to marry. my expectations aren't even that high, she doesn't have to be very pretty or anything, just interested in learning the deen. I don't get it! I am a pretty attractive guy, ask lightninatnite, at the start of the rihla, i walked into a room full of bros, and one palestinian bro said i was a very good looking guy and that in the US i could be a movie star! and still things just don't seem to work out for me. why is Allah making me endure this? i can't understand it. subhan'Allah.

please make dua insha'Allah

salam wa rahmat'Allah

p.s sorry for venting a little there! :)
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Arsalan
05/21/01 at 14:41:30
[slm]
[quote]
btw, Saleema: can you hook me up with a pathan girl? masha'Allah they're very decent. but I can't seem to get a hook up here :([/quote]

[quote]i can't seem to get married. i know that's a sister type comment, but I hate being alone, it sucks. i am not a 'i'm going out with the bros type of guy' i just want to get married. pure and simple. almaz.[/quote]
*LOL*

Br. Ali, *no* marriage ads allowed here!  Go to zawaj.com :)

[quote]I am a pretty attractive guy, ask lightninatnite, at the start of the rihla, i walked into a room full of bros, and one palestinian bro said i was a very good looking guy and that in the US i could be a movie star! [/quote]Hahahah.  This is just hilarious! ;-D

I sympathize with you though bro!  May Allah help you ... and all the rest of us bachelors :)
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
MMohammad
05/21/01 at 15:02:24
Bro jehad don't accuse me of calling you anti-Shia. Don't put words in my mouth. And for your post, I think its nonsense. I don't even have the time to comment on it..
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Ali
05/21/01 at 16:07:03
assalam alailkum,

PLEASE, do not EVER use the words "basketball skills" and "Arsalan" in the same sentence. †

I am the world's worst basketball player. I can empathise.

hey! i thought this was the bebzi stand! boy am i in the wrong place!

salam wa rahmat'Allah

p.s did you see my cunning attempt to kick start a conversation about marriage? I am so sly! I have been asking jannah to do one for a long time, but she was evasive on the issue. Evasive like some kind of politician! (I don't think my dua was najiha - see below)

p.p.s Arsalan what was so funny about the last remark!:( (that smarts)
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Saleema
05/21/01 at 16:05:24
[slm]

Sorry, brother Ali. Don't know any unmarried pathan girls. :) And the ones I do, would most likey only marry other pathans.
[wlm]
Saleema
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Ali
05/21/01 at 16:15:41
assalam alaikum,

Sorry, brother Ali. Don't know any unmarried pathan girls.  And the ones I do, would most likey only marry other pathans.

that is sooooo racist that they only likey other puthans! :) Forget it, the whole thing is off! Man, that sister would have got a sweet deal too! This is what has brought down the Ummah. This TRIBALISM. It is sooooo wrong!I am sorry, I just feel pretty strongly about that. We should just get all our leaders to marry each others cousins and stuff... and sit back and watch the war get won. Insha'Allah.

salam wa rahmat'Allah


Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
Saleema
05/22/01 at 17:19:20
[slm]

that is sooooo racist that they only likey other puthans! :) Forget it, the whole thing is off!

I agree. :) Sorry, though.

Man, that sister would have got a sweet deal too!

Yeah, sure. But whatever you say.

This is what has brought down the Ummah. This TRIBALISM.

That's it, one of the main reasons why the ummah is in such a bad shpae, not because of marriage issues but because many people believe that race or ethnicity is better for whatever reason.

We should just get all our leaders to marry each others cousins and stuff... and sit back and watch the war get won. Insha'Allah.

LOL  :D  That would be something wouldn't it? I would bring my popcorn with me.

[wlm]
Saleema



Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
chachi
05/22/01 at 18:51:47
Salaam

Hmm don't any of you guys know..it takes a pathan guy to handle a pathan girl...*lol*..you could try a wannabe pathan akhi..look at all the ones in the uk..heh heh heh

hey..look man i'm not holding millenia of stuff against the iranians...just their present attitude of big brother

saleema never said iran was perfect sis..no more than any other country..the iranians do have principles they stick too though ..and they do have a legal system which punishes the corrupt..read some Dilip Hiro girl!

the muslims in america can better tell you what their situation is than i can

to quote imam hamza yusuf ..'the person who tries to disunite muslims today is nothing less than a shaytan'

i think ayatollah khomeini made some great strides in cutting the differences  between the sunni and shia (read Islam and Revolution)
but this is not to say that there are certain shia scholars who consider sunni kaffir and also certain sunni who consider shia ..and the result of this can be see in certain parts of pakistan..and anybody who has any understanding can see who funded some of the sunni groups because they ALL emerged after 1979 and started attacking the shia..

ibn khaldun talked a century ago about how muslim culture changes in response to economic changes so maybe iran is changing and as a result this is producing stresses and strains in the society ...

but nobody should confuse this with hatred of the iranian government

can anybody tell me what would happen to mubarak if his bodyguards let him out of sight?..or the house of saud?..or abdallah?..or saddam..?..or bashir al-wahhsh? (his original family name)

Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
MMohammad
05/22/01 at 23:47:22
Not to attack you or anything but I have never ever heard a Shia (Twelver Shia) call any Sunni a 'kaffir'. Its illegal. The Shias are forbidden to call people who believe in Allah and Muhammad kaffir regardless of their beliefs. Ask any Shia scholar. Name me one (scholar or leader).. ? Just wondering because from all the discussions, lectures Ive been to never heard of it. BTW, if you feel im offending you don't ignore this thread.. :)

WS

PS: AHmed Deedat when he visited Iran also tried to cut the difference or unite the Muslim Ummah by complementing both Shias and SUnnis.
Re: an eyewitness account from Afghanistan
bhaloo
05/23/01 at 01:42:18
slm

There will be no further discussion on sunni vs. shia on this board, as you all have agreed to rule #14 of the constitution.  I personally have been involved in many extensive discussions on this topic (some lasting a whole year) and it has been my experience that the discussions get out of hand because people don't know how to control themselves.

This thread is now closed.


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